The Pioneer Press medallion has been found. Details are at our Winter Carnival page.
The hunt's over, but the discussion rages on ...
(1999 previous messages)guy - 09:18am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2000 of 8457)
Hi 
Patrick Budion - 09:18am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2001 of 8457)
It is in Cherokee that's the bottom line. Gold Digger - 09:18am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2002 of 8457)
Guy your obviously very tired!!! guy - 09:19am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2003 of 8457)
HaHaHa I got the lucky 2.000th Message!!!!!!! I'm going to find it. mother dole - 09:19am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2004 of 8457)
would bet that just about every any street is a city somewhere Gold Digger - 09:19am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2005 of 8457)
Why do you think that Patrick? (Just looking for some diversity.) Patrick Budion - 09:20am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2006 of 8457)
It is in Cherokee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Patrick Budion - 09:21am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2007 of 8457)
No,all the clues point to Cherokee with all the thing's you can see from there. mother dole - 09:21am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2008 of 8457)
maybe city streets lead the way means that some street like smith comes from the city (downtown) right over to the area mother dole - 09:22am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2009 of 8457)
has anyone tried dome park, off division street at the st. paul/maplewood border... just a thought Patrick Budion - 09:23am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2010 of 8457)
That is a good idea it could be there. Is that park small or big. mother dole - 09:26am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2011 of 8457)
it is probably too small. mother dole - 09:27am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2012 of 8457)
at cherokee, there are two single divisions: st. paul/west st. paul, and west stp. paul/mendota hts. does anyone remmber if by the archimedes theorem if 2 single divisions is equiv. to 1 double division? and i was a math major :) Shawnster Johnster - 09:31am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2013 of 8457)
Does anyone know if it has been found yet? Everson Mike - 09:34am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2014 of 8457)
OK, How about double division = square root? Buried in the root of a bush or something? steve worthma - 09:47am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2015 of 8457)
The Hungry Mind Bookstore is sold out of Treasure Hunter's Guides. Please give the Map Store a call @ 227-6277, they had about 20 left on thursday morning. I'll try to have some for sale at the park, look for my "Treasure Maps" sign. I'll be there around noon, today. Steve Worthman @ jsrworth@aol. GPopDaddiO - 10:02am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2016 of 8457)
Hey Steve!!!
What park?
My library has a copy of your book and I've been copying my info(for private study and/or scholarship) out of it for the past two years, but I'd like to see you get paid for the work, Park Man. E.R. - 10:03am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2017 of 8457)
I have no idea where the medallion is.Mabye cherokee? Red DOG - 10:04am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2018 of 8457)
Good Morning JayBird, are you and O'll Yeller awake yet. jmg - 10:12am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2019 of 8457)
Maybe I'm totally clueless after #7 ...
Somethings add up for Mounds Park.
Water(Mississippi), woods, scenery(in just about all directions),
high grounds(Sacred Indian burials), Bloomless Roses(Thorn St.),
Zooming kids(slides in the Toddler park facility), Large object in View to guide(Beacon atop the Park for guiding air traffic into/from Hollman field below), Demo(exhibit of Burial grounds), Immeasurable Riches(Earl St. or "Duke of", are most Dukes considered wealthy?, how about nearby Frank St., as in the German mark?, Or do the Sacred grounds provide riches beyond measure?), Tracks, Stacks, and Plumes of Smoke(railroad tracks below the Mounds Bluffs, stacks emitting smoke/vapor in plain view from Indutrial Park below the bluffs?).
Double Division lost me... Division St. seems to vague and the Mathematical approach (square root) might be above just about all of us.
WHAT OTHER PARKS FIT??? Red DOG - 10:15am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2020 of 8457)
JMG try Cherokee E.R. - 10:38am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2021 of 8457)
It is in either Cherokee park or Indian Mounds Park.Am I right? Cheryl Straight - 10:42am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2022 of 8457)
Was at Cherokee last night (well it was dark anyway), lots of footprints and some lookers. The clues re mounds sound like it could be there. E.R. - 10:44am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2023 of 8457)
I'm so Ancious to look for it.I have to leave But no,I can't. E.R. - 10:45am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2024 of 8457)
Yeah.I think It's at mounds park too! Cheryl Straight - 10:46am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2025 of 8457)
Assume someone from pp will post here if it is found, right? E.R. - 10:47am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2026 of 8457)
Probably. Cheryl Straight - 10:49am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2027 of 8457)
However..posts from late last night pursuaded me to check out cherokee. Sometimes feel missing the obvious by reading too much into it. May go back over to cherokee to check. E.R. - 10:51am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2028 of 8457)
Well,see you later.I have to go! jmg - 10:51am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2029 of 8457)
Red Dog ( and other Cherokees) ...
What points to Cherokee? ... if I may ask.
(Deleted item originally posted by deb hendrick on 10:52am Jan 31, 1998 CST)Cheryl Straight - 10:57am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2031 of 8457)
Annapolis, the street dividing St.Paul from West StP and Mendota Heights and Ramsey from Dakota county. That's one of the cherokee pointers jmg. You can also see the NSP smoke stack from there.
Does anyone know if it must be buried next to the ground? I have checked the rules and the past 10 year's hunts and it seems to be so. Reason asking is there's someone at cherokee poking around in the tree tops. Brutus and Kato - 11:07am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2032 of 8457)
Yes, Cheryl, I agree, on or near the ground, not in the treetops. Boy, do people get carried away. Last year my daughter and I saw some guys in a pickup driving around Como shining spotlights into the treetops. Give me a break! Jeff Ryans - 11:10am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2033 of 8457)
The little kids skating team at central park in Roseville are called 'The Rosebuds'. go check that out. Is that Ramsey county? Annette B. - 11:11am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2034 of 8457)
Since I may never get to look...sounds like Mounds Park...my thesaurus says
stack=mound and
plume is a lg. ornamental feather (as in indian feathers?) also city streets sounds like
urban place, and there is a plum(e) street a few blocks from urban.. Tyler Rogers - 11:29am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2035 of 8457)
Is anyone speaking from either Cherokee or Mounds? Darren Dynkavitch - 11:30am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2036 of 8457)
Crapt this is so cunfusin we will never find it with this stupid guy and hist stupid bareley enough information poems uggg!Well good luck anywayz people!!! Metal Detective - 11:31am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2037 of 8457)
Is anyone speaking from either Cherokee or Mounds? jmg - 11:32am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2038 of 8457)
Thanks for the NSP stack update... although it was foggy last night, I'm sure
it's visible from Mounds as well as Cherokee. The Double Division theory works
very well for Cherokee. Only Division I can come up with for Mounds is the River
(St. Paul/W.St.Paul), ... anybody have another division for Mounds? A. Metal Detective - 11:36am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2039 of 8457)
Maybe the line of double division is something smaller, such as a bike path. Its telling where in the park, as opposed to the location of the park itself. Cheryl Straight - 11:36am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2040 of 8457)
Cherokee has attracted a few this am. I can see them from my window. Husband just back from walking dog, says 20 or so people on this end of park. A. Metal Detective - 11:37am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2041 of 8457)
What end of the park Cheryl? Cheryl Straight - 11:38am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2042 of 8457)
northern end of "main" park - between baker and page. their hunch may be that Baker splits "main" park from piece containing tennis courts and cherokee heights blvd which splits the "main" park from the bluff side... Brian Carlson - 11:41am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2043 of 8457)
double division for Mound: there is a "Scenic Path" in Mound that seperates 2 pairs of mounds, 2 on each side. A. Metal Detective - 11:42am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2044 of 8457)
What is the double division reasoning for Cherokee? Cheryl Straight - 11:43am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2045 of 8457)
if the other parks are looking like cherokee, I hope it snows after medallion is found. It looks like an army marched through Cherokee.
(Deleted item originally posted by Cheryl Straight on 11:44am Jan 31, 1998 CST)A. Metal Detective - 11:45am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2047 of 8457)
Heh, its hard trying to remember what Cherokee was like. I should have went there more when I was a teen... J B - 11:46am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2048 of 8457)
division for cherokee is that Annapolis a "city" street divides St. Paul from West St Paul/Mendota Hts and also I thing Ramsay and dakota counties . .hence double division ?
Was over there this am . . .more people were at Mounds Park Cheryl Straight - 11:46am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2049 of 8457)
Is the author(s) of the clues ever disclosed after it's found? J B - 11:48am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2050 of 8457)
Sorry for spelling in previous message. It was very hard to see Cathedral/Capitol as well as NSP smoke stack from the highest point in Cherokee which is the Southern end of the park where kids are sledding(zooming)near Annapolis("city" street and the double division reference) GOOD LUCK TO ALL A. Metal Detective - 11:49am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2051 of 8457)
JB, when were you at Cherokee? GPopDaddiO - 11:52am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2052 of 8457)
I don't think the author would get a minute's rest if he/she were disclosed to the people who spend countless moonlight hours out in sub-zero weather only to have the med found in 15 minutes by someone who "just stopped by" to check it out. The explanation of the clues, however are always published at the end of the hunt so we can see how far fetched they (or we) are. Always a depressing day, if I was dead wrong, or dead on, cause I still didn't get the dough!!! A. Metal Detective - 11:57am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2053 of 8457)
Forgive me for asking if this has already been asked, but how does clue #4 fit in with Cherokee? Especially the first two lines? Ice Cream Man - 11:58am Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2054 of 8457)
Does anyone else think that it's hidden at the binoculars at the High Bridge. That's part of Cherokee Park. Ice Cream Man - 12:00pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2055 of 8457)
Today's clue "dough" could have something to do with a bakery. What bakeries are around Cherokee Park or Mounds? Cheryl Straight - 12:01pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2056 of 8457)
"A large object in view.." might be NSP stack. Coal at plant could be Mother Lode. Others have located 2 domes in clue which could be Cathedral and Capital... kollin stevens - 12:02pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2057 of 8457)
where would it be by the binoculars A. Metal Detective - 12:02pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2058 of 8457)
Is the NSP stack and the domes visible from all of Cherokee park, or just a certain part?
(Deleted item originally posted by kollin stevens on 12:05pm Jan 31, 1998 CST)Ice Cream Man - 12:05pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2060 of 8457)
You can see the two "domes" there, not to mention the smokestack to the left, a big limestone rock, and the railroad tracks are visible straight ahead. Ice Cream Man - 12:08pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2061 of 8457)
Does anyone else think it could possibly be at the Kellogg Mall Park? As of right now, the clues lead to any of these places, not to mention Prospect and even Phalen. Ice Cream Man - 12:10pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2062 of 8457)
Can 'double division' refer to the Mississippi and Minnesota Rivers joining nearby Crosby Farm Park? Ice Cream Man - 12:13pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2063 of 8457)
This just in, ma pahtna just got back from Phalen, and you'll never believe this. Some guy found the Medallion hidden in the bricks around a tree. So I guess the search is over until next year. jmg - 12:16pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2064 of 8457)
So for Cherokee ... Streets are Water, Joy(pleasure), Wood(or so I'm told), Prospect(immeaurable riches), tracks and stack(s) in view with smoke plume(NSP?),
high ground with scenery, and profound Double Division.
What about that "Rosebud" deal???
Mounds ... Streets are Thorn, Urban, Frank, Plum(e), and Cherry. Water(river) and woods(Forest Reserve) with High(Sacred) grounds, again tracks and stacks,
beaconing guide in view, demo(Mound exhibits), park slides for zooming kids.
What is the division other than the river for Mounds??? kollin stevens - 12:19pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2065 of 8457)
ice cream man is joe medallion, right? E.R. - 12:30pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2066 of 8457)
What about the first line in Clue 5? "We'd be the first to say that a place to play..." Rob Norris - 12:43pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2067 of 8457)
Listen, no one has found it yet and it cant be at phalen. Usually it would say in a clue to stay away from private lands or something like that where ever a golfcourse would be near. My thoughts are at cherokkee. E.R. - 12:45pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2068 of 8457)
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ANYBODY HERE! guy - 12:46pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2069 of 8457)
What about highland? E.R. - 12:46pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2070 of 8457)
THANK YOU! guy - 12:47pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2071 of 8457)
Say something E.R. - 12:47pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2072 of 8457)
It can't be at Highland. guy - 12:48pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2073 of 8457)
I have a felling it is at highland guy - 12:48pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2074 of 8457)
Why? E.R. - 12:50pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2075 of 8457)
How can it be?
because you said so!
Actully, NO! Rob Norris - 12:52pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2076 of 8457)
Its not highland. scroll up and look what i had to say. man,how many times do i have to say. its at cherokkee. Look if u must know my brother works for the winter carnival and he told me that it is in cherokkee park, but he cant tell me where it is. Thats all im saying. And if u dont believe me tough luck, but if u do u could be 4000-5000 dollars richer. E.R. - 12:53pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2077 of 8457)
None of the clues match Highland. guy - 12:53pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2078 of 8457)
Highland has a large object in view, selding area, has high ground is just like highland, two big dome like water towers and other clues lead to it to. E.R. - 12:55pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2079 of 8457)
Rob,tell me all the clues that match Chero"kk"ee then! E.R. - 12:58pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2080 of 8457)
Guy,you obviously are young because you can't spell and what kind of IDIOT would put their name in as "guy". Rob Norris - 12:59pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2081 of 8457)
Listen, is all i have to say is what i have said. My brother said tonights clue should give it away. After i get the clue tonight on the internet, ill be goin out tomorrow to cherokee and find myself that medallion. and one more thing, ITS NOT AT HIGHLAND,COMO,PHALEN, OR ANY PLACE WITH A GOLF COURSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! jmg - 01:03pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2082 of 8457)
E.R. & Clue #5 ....
Winter plesaure/enjoyment could be found in activities they(Press) would cover. Such as, Olympic related activity(The Roseville Oval and/or Snow Sculpting event). Would that make for a "blooming Rose" during Winter's gloom? guy - 01:05pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2083 of 8457)
JMG, it's in St paul remember. E.R. - 01:06pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2084 of 8457)
I'M SURE ROB!
William - 01:10pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2085 of 8457)
Are the sidewalks around Cherokee plowed? I've noticed that all the parks that i have been to the sidewalks around the parks are plowed, Cherokee was the only park where the sidewalks were not. guy - 01:12pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2086 of 8457)
Where in Cherokee is it than, rob? Cheryl Straight - 01:17pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2087 of 8457)
William...per park/rec, cherokee's sidewalks aren't plowed because of lack of funds..our block club is working on it.. jmg - 01:24pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2088 of 8457)
GUY - they're not always consistent in that regard. Acorn Park(Roseville), Wakefield(Maplewood), Tony Schmidt Park(Arden Hills), etc ... Cheryl Straight - 01:25pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2089 of 8457)
except clue #1 says it's a St. Paul park... jmg - 01:27pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2090 of 8457)
I stand corrected ... thank you. Eastside Boys - 01:30pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2091 of 8457)
It's clear that nobody knows where the treasure is. Therefore I will help you all. Beaver Lake is the Location. Why. One street that runs into Beaver Lake is Rose Ave, across the lake betw McKnight and Stillwater is Bud street. Rosebud is also a sled, the sliding hill is near the school by the lake. The Eastside is the highest point in St.Paul therefore the highest ground. The dome is the water tower that overlooks the lake. The mother lode is the statue of Mary near the school next to the sliding hill. With the railroad tracks nearby and the plume of smoke from the 3m plant, Beaver Lake is where you want to be. The 7th clue tells us it's near a line of double division that is the Blvd. Walk from the Blvd to the sliding hill near the school and you will find the treasure. Watch for me on the news. Eastside Boys.
(Deleted item originally posted by money man on 01:39pm Jan 31, 1998 CST)Eastside Boys - 01:43pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2093 of 8457)
I grew up on Beaver Lake and all the clues point there... It just makes sense! Just Kidding - 01:44pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2094 of 8457)
It's been found! It was at Beaver Lake! Just Kidding - 01:45pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2095 of 8457)
just checking how this works..... Kathy Rutherford - 01:46pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2096 of 8457)
Just in case anyone is interested if you have access to Cable station 15 in the Mahtomedi area there was a show on this afternoon and again tonight at 9:30 that is called the Treasure Hunters Guide to St Paul Parks and it shows videos of all of the parks pointing out landmarks that may help in the search. medallion man - 01:47pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2097 of 8457)
Just kidding, quit kidding Just Kidding - 01:47pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2098 of 8457)
Does anyone think it's with the Indian's? Just Kidding - 01:48pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2099 of 8457)
Anyone lookin in Mou*** Park? medallion man - 01:48pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2100 of 8457)
No Cheryl Straight - 01:49pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2101 of 8457)
Just Kidding...check the previous messages...... medallion man - 01:49pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2102 of 8457)
Why dosn't anyone think it's at Highland Just Kidding - 01:50pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2103 of 8457)
Nobody
'i'here
thinks it's in mounds park? Cheryl Straight - 01:50pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2104 of 8457)
What's the double division at Highland? Just Kidding - 01:51pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2105 of 8457)
Nobody
here thinks it's in mounds park? Eastside Boys - 01:51pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2106 of 8457)
Beaver Lake is where it's at! medallion man - 01:53pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2107 of 8457)
Cheryl, the street that goes thow the park that divides it. I forgot the name. Just Kidding - 01:53pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2108 of 8457)
Eastside... are you
i sure it's there?
and is beaver pk.
even in St. Paul? Just Kidding - 01:54pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2109 of 8457)
I say it's in mounds park. Eastside Boys - 01:54pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2110 of 8457)
Yes it's in St.Paul! medallion man - 01:55pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2111 of 8457)
Is beaver lake consider a park? Just Kidding - 01:56pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2112 of 8457)
then
why aren't u looking in Beaver Park? Eastside Boys - 01:56pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2113 of 8457)
The sign reads Beaver Lake Park! medallion man - 01:56pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2114 of 8457)
I say it's in Highland park...... Keast - 01:56pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2115 of 8457)
where is beaver park located at and how do i get there?
I also think with all the references to vision it is in an eyeglass case this year. Just Kidding - 01:58pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2116 of 8457)
yeah... could u post the directions? Eastside Boys - 02:02pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2117 of 8457)
From St.Paul take 94 east to McKnight head north to Stillwater take a left go to Nokomis turn right to Case Ave right to Edgewater and your right there. Eastside Boys - 02:03pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2118 of 8457)
Just Kidding, how do you know I'm not here! Keast - 02:06pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2119 of 8457)
why is Mound park out today and yesterday it was so in? medallion man - 02:06pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2120 of 8457)
Eastside boys, Why don't you go out and find it and tell me somthing I should see you wharing in the paper tomorow. Eastside Boys - 02:07pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2121 of 8457)
Read the clues! Every year someone thinks it's at Mounds or Cherokee. Beaver Lake is where it's at! Keast - 02:10pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2122 of 8457)
Hey I'm not doubting you Eastside. Just questioning. Every year I'm out there digging away and I'm stuck at home with a toddler with a cold. When my wife gets home I'm gearing up and heading out.
Question: Imeasurable, anyone get that one yet?
Question2: what other streets are boundries of Beaver Lake park? Christopher Hughes - 02:11pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2123 of 8457)
Cheryl Straight: I think the "line of double division" in Highland could be Montreal which divides the park in two. Could it also refer to Highland Parkway on the north side of the park or to Edgecumbe which is another street running into the park with opposing lanes divided by a grassy boulevard. Eastside Boys - 02:12pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2124 of 8457)
Keast- Edgewater,Maryland,McKnight,Stillwater Eastside Boys - 02:25pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2125 of 8457)
I'm shutting down my laptop for now, several people have just arrived!
See you at Beaver Lake! JN - 02:27pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2126 of 8457)
How about central park in roseville? JN - 02:29pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2127 of 8457)
It is not in Beaver lake because it is not in st. paul city limits Christopher Hughes - 02:32pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2128 of 8457)
In looking at my map, I see that part of Beaver Lake is in Saint Paul limits.
(Deleted item originally posted by Matt Watters on 02:33pm Jan 31, 1998 CST)
(Deleted item originally posted by Matt Watters on 02:36pm Jan 31, 1998 CST)Matt Watters - 02:38pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2131 of 8457)
Everyone keeps saying things about a division, but it's a DOUBLE division. Madallion man - 02:41pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2132 of 8457)
It's the latest clue jane Morehouse - 02:43pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2133 of 8457)
it is still in mounds park, mounds blvd runs straight thru park.divides just past hospital hence aids,just after thorn hence rosebud.turns into mounds street hence double division. Patrick Budion - 02:47pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2134 of 8457)
Double division (county and city line border Cherokee) and 5 city streets (annapolis, Ottowa, Sidney, Wyoming & Winona) run into or border Cherokee. Matt Watters - 02:52pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2135 of 8457)
Then what's the large object in Mounds? Cheryl Straight - 02:55pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2136 of 8457)
I think I'll risk that someone doesn't find it today. Tonight, I'll be ready to hit the park as soon as the new clue is posted! Good-luck to everyone seeking today. Still think it may be at Cherokee or Highland....Bye for now. Matt Watters - 02:57pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2137 of 8457)
Anyone have any thoughts on "mother lode"? jane Morehouse - 02:58pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2138 of 8457)
the large tower beacon for airplanes right in the park Bubba - 02:59pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2139 of 8457)
The double division clue is too good of a fit with Cherokee, I like the odds there, but what is the guiding thing Bubba - 03:00pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2140 of 8457)
AOL CHAT
member room Medallion Hunt B.J. Mack - 03:01pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2141 of 8457)
OK Mounds Park fans, what's your justification for the "line of double division" in today's clue?
jane Morehouse wrote:- 02:43pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2133 of 2137)
However, if you'd all like to stay in Mounds Park, that's fine with me. Just makes it more likely I'll be walking away with the medallion in Cherokee after 11:30 tonight :) it is still in mounds park, mounds blvd runs straight thru >park.divides just past hospital hence aids,just after thorn hence >rosebud.turns into mounds street hence double division.
This is quite a stretch, jane. Step back and read Patrick Budion's explanation. He's on to it.
RN - 03:02pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2142 of 8457)
doulble division means the signs showing hiking paths(arrow) along with biking and hiking (arrow) all on each sign, Many signs. Mounds Park. RN - 03:10pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2143 of 8457)
How does rosebud fit in with cherokee? In defending Mounds park, in clue four "so here's a demo the mode to pursue" demo and mode are a anagrams for dome of burial sites, catherdral and capitol. Bubba - 03:13pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2144 of 8457)
rn you still here B.J. Mack - 03:14pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2145 of 8457)
RN--
That's pretty weak. Those signs are in every park with a combined bike/walking path. The other Mounds Park explanations of a a "double division" was a path that divided to go around two burial mounds, and a road that divides the park twice. All not very strong.
On the other hand, Annapolis Street, which borders Cherokee Park, is the dividing line between St. Paul and West St. Paul/Mendota Heights and is also the dividing line between Ramsey and Dakota Counties.
I hate to make it all so easy. But I doubt any of the hardcore Mounds Park fans will come over to the West Side anyway.
Looking forward to tonight's clue! Patrick Budion - 03:14pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2146 of 8457)
medallion is hidden in a La Rosa pasta box
(Deleted item originally posted by RN on 03:16pm Jan 31, 1998 CST)Bubba - 03:17pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2148 of 8457)
rn you still here Bubba - 03:18pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2149 of 8457)
rn-
you can see the cathedral and capitol from cherokee,
btwm dont you have aol rn RN - 03:19pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2150 of 8457)
yes still here well then how does rosebud fit into cherokee??? Bubba - 03:20pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2151 of 8457)
rosebud is what it is in...but not sure how yet RN - 03:20pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2152 of 8457)
no we dont have an aol address. keep talking Bubba - 03:21pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2153 of 8457)
why doesn't aol know you rn Bubba - 03:22pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2154 of 8457)
you put rn@aol.com for your email address Patrick Budion - 03:22pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2155 of 8457)
it's in a La Rosa pasta box B.J. Mack - 03:23pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2156 of 8457)
I like Patrick's thought that the medallion is hidden in a La Rosa pasta box. Hence, "Rosebud." The La Rose Pasta company is also on the West Side, right?
"Rosebud" doesn't necessarily point to the park. It's likely a hint about what the medallion is hidden in. It's also the name of the sled in "Citizen Kane." So it could be reinforcing the idea that the medallion is hidden near a sledding hill. Pat Pfundstein - 03:23pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2157 of 8457)
How many times does Rosebud have to be explained. In what is considered the greatest movie of all time by many critics, Citizen Kane, the main character dies while uttering the word 'Rosebud'. Since he is one of the wealthiest men in the world (based on William Randolph Hearst), much of the movie is spent trying to find out what he meant. It turns out he lost his sled 'Rosebud' as a child, and it screwed him up for life.
Rosebud means sled. There is a sliding area in Cherokee near Annapolis. I agree the Mounds die hards will stay there. This will win them the coveted Frog Pond Medal first class. More power to them. RN - 03:23pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2158 of 8457)
how does clue five (immeasurable) relate to Cherokee?? Bubba - 03:25pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2159 of 8457)
pat, who dies an made you medallion goddess...i guarantee that rosebud is what it is in Bubba - 03:27pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2160 of 8457)
AOL CHAT
member room Medallion Hunt B.J. Mack - 03:27pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2161 of 8457)
RN--
The important part of clue five is not "immeasurable." It's the references to "a place to play" and "city streets." There's a playground in Cherokee not far from the sledding hill. Also, as pointed out earlier, five streets with city names border or run into Cherokee (Annapolis, Ottawa, Wyoming, Winona, Sidney (sic)).
Beat that Mounds Parkians.
Have we changed anybody's mind yet? Patrick Budion - 03:27pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2162 of 8457)
5 city streets run into or border Cherokee (annapolis, winona, wyoming, sidney & I forgot the other one Bubba - 03:28pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2163 of 8457)
AOL CHAT
member room Medallion Hunt RN - 03:29pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2164 of 8457)
HOw about this: Clue 4 "So here's the demo of the mode to pursue" demo and mode anagrams of dome!Burial mounds,cathedral and capital. Patrick Budion - 03:29pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2165 of 8457)
I don't think the Mounders will move until they say the word "Cherokee". Patrick Budion - 03:30pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2166 of 8457)
Cathedral and Capital domes visable from Cherokee
(Deleted item originally posted by RN on 03:31pm Jan 31, 1998 CST)Pat Pfundstein - 03:31pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2168 of 8457)
Clue Five isn't keyed by immeasurable. Its key is city streets. As someone just pointed out, five streets named after cities run into or border Cherokee.
bubba Nobody. But unlike many of the people here, I try to read all of the posts. Plus, if you have been reading you will see I was once leaning towards Mounds, but have tried to figure out the clues, not force them to fit what I want. No explanation of Mounds now fits without stretching the clues into unrecognizable form, or making them so general they fit any park in St. Paul. Patrick Budion - 03:32pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2169 of 8457)
AOL chat in Town Square Medallion Hunt B.J. Mack - 03:34pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2170 of 8457)
RN--
Happy to see you figured one clue out. "Demo" and "mode" are anagrams of "dome." There's two of them in the clue = two domes, the Capitol and the Cathedral. No need for burial mounds.
You can see the Capitol and Cathedral domes from both Mounds Park and Cherokee. But check out the first part of clue four. "A large object in view will help guide you." I think that's a reference to the NSP smokestack, which becomes more clear in clue six. You can see the NSP smokestack from Mounds, but it's a lot closer to Cherokee.
Like we're all saying...it's OK with us if you stay at Mounds :) Patrick Budion - 03:34pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2171 of 8457)
Pat, 3:31 post is right on. Make the clues find the park, not the park fit the clues. RN - 03:36pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2172 of 8457)
Any beaver lake fans out there? Pat Pfundstein - 03:37pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2173 of 8457)
One other dome thought. If you stand and look at the "line of double division" sign (which has a line between Lilydale and Mendota Heights) on Cherokee, you can then turn around and notice a 'Capitol City' sign with a picture of the Capitol dome. From that very spot you can also see the NSP stack, the Catherdral Dome, the sliding area, the river, and of course Annapolis. deedrox.r - 03:39pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2174 of 8457)
hello everyone,first time hunter here. where can i buy a guide and where should i start looking.help. RN - 03:42pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2175 of 8457)
Are boundries Ramsey county or St. Paul city limits, been told both. B.J. Mack - 03:42pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2176 of 8457)
Pat--
I know the spot you're talking about. But it's rather dangerous, with Highway 13 starting up there. And beware, you may not be in the actual park across the street there. Patrick Budion - 03:43pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2177 of 8457)
#2173, good thought Pat. Patrick Budion - 03:45pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2178 of 8457)
RN, Annapolis is the boundry of both "Double Division" Greg Sax - 03:45pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2179 of 8457)
Pat : What is this "line of double division" sign ? Pat Pfundstein - 03:46pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2180 of 8457)
deedrox read the last 50 or so posts. There are definitely two schools of thought Indian Mounds Park, or Cherokee Park. I am now sure of Cherokee (at least until the next clue!).
B.J. I agree it is not across the street. I just think it is in that end of the park. The clues usually go from the general to the specific, so I do not think anything in Cherokee should be ruled out. RN - 03:53pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2181 of 8457)
Patrick Budion post#2178, thanks but what I meant was in general what is the rule concerning the boundries of where the park is located Ramsey county or St. Paul city limits? Greg Sax - 03:54pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2182 of 8457)
I was out at Mounds last night, and after the clue came out, tons of cars came up the hill as if they knew something. When I went down to get the clue the "double division" stuff really threw me. I've been in the Mounds camp since early on, but it might be interesting to check out Cherokee. The "city streets" stuff works for both Mounds and Cherokee, so that doesn't attract my attention so much as "you'll soon be back" from Clue No. 6. I've also recently heard a neat theory about the use of the word "plume" as in an Indian headdress. But I still believe the "plume of smoke" refers to the NSP stack. Pat Pfundstein - 03:54pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2183 of 8457)
Greg If you stand at the corner of Annapolis and Cherokee, and look down Cherokee you will see a city sign as you would pass out of St. Paul. It carries the names of two cities, Lilydale and Mendota Heights, because on the right hand side of Highway 13 (the extension of Cherokee beyond St. Paul's city limits) you are in Lilydale. The left hand side is Mendota Heights. A line even divides the names. It may be a distillation of the clue or an overreading on my part (of no consequence since the main meaning is probably Annapolis which is the line dividing both St. Paul/Mendota Heights and Ramsey/Dakota).
By the way, I do not rule out a 'rosy' container for the Medallion, but if Rosebud did not mean sled, it would not be in quotes and capitalized. Greg Sax - 03:55pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2184 of 8457)
RN: The medallion is always hidden in Ramsey County. This year it's definitely hidden in St. Paul. B.J. Mack - 03:56pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2185 of 8457)
Pat, good thought. Last year it seemed they kept giving boundaries, going from general to specific (Estabrook, the 11 trees, etc.). Any thoughts on what those boundaries are so far this year? Pat Pfundstein - 03:56pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2186 of 8457)
RN It can be either. The first clue will say either St. Paul or Ramsey. If it says St. Paul though, you can rule out the suburbs for that year. Pat Pfundstein - 04:00pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2187 of 8457)
Beats me. I'd guess the Annapolis end. Baker St might be the dough (possible clue over read alert!) I'd better get offline now though. I am supposed to be working. Good Luck (especially to my lovely wife, who is digging as I write this.)
(Deleted item originally posted by RN on 04:00pm Jan 31, 1998 CST)B.J. Mack - 04:04pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2189 of 8457)
RN--
Do you think all of us veterans would be searching in Cherokee if it wasn't in ST. PAUL!?!?! Annapolis Street (as I've written before) is the city limits, dividing St. Paul from Mendota Heights/Lilydale/West St. Paul. It also divides Ramsey and Dakota Counties. Hence the "double division."
All the West Side residents will send you back across the river (or into it) if you make the mistake of saying they don't live in St. Paul. Dr. S. Livingston - 04:17pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2190 of 8457)
It seems as most people have left us to go hunt. I was in cherokee this a.m. and it was so dug up I can't imagine that if it was there it hasn't been found. I walked from the north end to the south end and back agian and there wasn't a single spot of earth not uncovered. Tonite I am going to mounds. It seems like the next logical step. Rob Norris - 04:20pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2191 of 8457)
Look heres how i see it. The so called "Rosebud" either stands for a sled or in that clue it says a place where they dont grow. that could refer to "thorn street" around in that area. the "dough" could stand for "bakers square" not to far from there. Kevin Kilduff - 04:22pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2192 of 8457)
It's in Indian head park. 'Rosebud" is a slead, and rose bushes refers to Thorn Street which is inside Indian Mound Park. THe word 'immeasuable' refers to Short St. in the park. Madallion man - 04:30pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2193 of 8457)
I don't think it's in Indian head park. What would be the large object in view. Huntress - 04:30pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2194 of 8457)
Okay, I'm out of the dig. So here's what I'm thinking. The 'plume' of smoke is indeed out there (Not NSP's however) but if you take the "e" off of plume you get "plum", as in a street at the "end" (end being part of Clue #1) of Indian Mounds Park. The double division appears to be between the streets dividing Mounds Blvd and 61 (?) and Mounds Blvd and Commercial (hence a lot of dough?!). Good luck, I'll be watching from the sidelines till next year. Dr. S. Livingston - 04:30pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2195 of 8457)
Perhaps it is in Beaver Lake Park. Clue2 states "In the neighborhood are water and woods" I take this to mean that streets with water and wood. They don't have to be in the park just in the neighborhood. Around Beaver Lake Park is Still"water" Ave., Lake"wood" Dr., and Egde"water" blvd. I don't know if there are any sledding hills or domes at this park, however.
(Deleted item originally posted by Kevin Kilduff on 04:31pm Jan 31, 1998 CST)Wes Evans - 04:38pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2197 of 8457)
If you didive something twice don't you get a 4th or perhaps fourth street..... Two Sisters - 04:46pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2198 of 8457)
Just came from Cherokee Park. It's not that dug up there. However, it's like looking for a needle in a thousand haystacks. I agree with the double division theory of dividing two cities and two counties - the clue says "double" division. But there's not much sledding there. You can see a lot of things relating to the clues though. It's definitely NOT at Beaver Lake - where's the smoke stack or plume of smoke? Dr. S. Livingston - 04:48pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2199 of 8457)
You can see the smokestack from the 3M plant from Beaver Lake. Wes Evans - 04:53pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2200 of 8457)
I hear mounds park is really dug up! Patrick Budion - 04:56pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2201 of 8457)
Dr S. It's in Cherokee Rob Norris - 05:01pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2202 of 8457)
Listen what r all of u people talking about. Its definitly not at indian mound park. I have proof. Dont even waste your time looking there. My brother works for the pioneer press and is always assigned to this event. And he tells me what park it is in every year, but not once have i yet to find it. It's in Cherokee Park. Towards the North end thats all he has told me, so now i just have to put the clues together. Two Sisters - 05:02pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2203 of 8457)
Dr. S: Where can you see the 3M plant from Beaver Lake? We couldn't see it! Dr. S. Livingston - 05:06pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2204 of 8457)
In the south end near Stillwater Ave. you can see the smokestack. You can see the smoke more than the stack. I was in cherokee and you can only see the NSP stack from certain points. Are we sure you have to see the stack from where the medallion is hidden or just from the park that it is hidden in. Wes Evans - 05:07pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2205 of 8457)
Rob, that would make you ineligable to turn it in! William - 05:08pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2206 of 8457)
Where in Cherokee is there a place to play that makes ANY winter more pleasurable? Any, meaning even if it's 50 below out. Sure could not mean an outdoor playground. Two Sisters - 05:09pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2207 of 8457)
What domes are visable from Beaver Lake? Dr. S. Livingston - 05:11pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2208 of 8457)
Patrick--If it is in cherokee then it is not there any more. Last year it was in como, but como is a large park. Cherokee is considerably smaller and the way people are flocking there then it is already found and no one wants to tell us. I think that the person writing the clues is making people think of only popular parks that are obvious from the clues. However, the clues have been vague enough not to give away the park name. I think that when the name of the park comes out people will be surprised and I think it will be a small park that fits the criteria, just not as obviously as the big parks. If I were writing the clues I would be leading people on wild-goose chases. I wouldn't want the medallion found until clue 12. ryan quinn - 05:12pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2209 of 8457)
whats up fellow hunters, just got back from work, and im kind of surprized no one has found it yet. does everyone still think its in cherokee or mounds? Wes Evans - 05:12pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2210 of 8457)
dr.s. clue six refers to " with this in view". to me means you must be able to see it from the spot. Dr. S. Livingston - 05:13pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2211 of 8457)
I don't know what domes are visible from Beaver Lake. That is why if you read through the previous postings, you will see that I asked if any domes are visible! ryan quinn - 05:16pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2212 of 8457)
has everyone pretty much given up on dome park? Patrick Budion - 05:17pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2213 of 8457)
Dr S. Cherokee is not that dug up and it was there in '92. It is a pretty good size park with adequate parking. ryan quinn - 05:17pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2214 of 8457)
hello is anyoenout there? why arent you talking? Wes Evans - 05:18pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2215 of 8457)
dr.s I agree that it is a small park. if it was a park like como or phalen, we would already know the name of the park. Wes Evans - 05:19pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2216 of 8457)
ryan, did you find your way to cherokee park yet? Patrick Budion - 05:20pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2217 of 8457)
The stack clue could go either way. You may or may not have to be able to see the stack from the medallions location. The clue may just be trying to get you to the park. You can also see the old power plant and stack from the park. Terry Valentine - 05:20pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2218 of 8457)
Read #8268 from CASEY!!!!!!
Often, even when it is in a large park, that does not become clear until the 7th or 8th clue. We have figured out the smaller parks quicker than we landed at Cherokee. We were out to Cherokee this afternoon. Where were all of you? Not huge numbers of people there. Dr. S. Livingston - 05:22pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2219 of 8457)
Patrick--Cherokee is dug up and there may be adequate parking but if you are to be able to see the smoke stack from the spot of the medallion then that narrows it down even further. Patrick Budion - 05:22pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2220 of 8457)
Typically not in small parks because of parking problems Wes Evans - 05:22pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2221 of 8457)
I think people are still convinced that it is at mounds park. Wes Evans - 05:23pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2222 of 8457)
Langford park was small. it wasn't that long ago it was there. William - 05:24pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2223 of 8457)
Any ideas on post #2206? AMD - 05:24pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2224 of 8457)
Hello Patrick Budion - 05:25pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2225 of 8457)
You may only need to be able to see the stacks plume from the medallions location Wes Evans - 05:26pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2226 of 8457)
true patrick Beavis - 05:27pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2227 of 8457)
It's not at Mounds or Cherokee Dr. S. Livingston - 05:27pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2228 of 8457)
Last year it gave the name of the park in clue #4 ryan quinn - 05:27pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2229 of 8457)
no, i had to work til just a while ago... ill probly go out tonight though
still havent given up on dome park, i might go out there tonight. i agree if it is in a big park we would probly allready know the name Patrick Budion - 05:28pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2230 of 8457)
It was in Langford in '91 and in my opinion there have been more and more folks looking each year and therefore it's been in larger parks. Terry Valentine - 05:29pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2231 of 8457)
Read #8268 from CASEY!!!!!!
William - Re: #2206 The outdoor places to play at Cherokee were being used today by kids out with their parents. Probably not practical in sub-zero cold, but could still give a kid pleasure if only for a few minutes. Dr. S. Livingston - 05:29pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2232 of 8457)
Where is dome park? ryan quinn - 05:34pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2233 of 8457)
dome park (actually called goodrich park) is right on the border of north st paul, maplewood, and St Paul. its on 7th ave across the stret from aldrich arena and the golf DOME. oh and also across from goodrich golf course Josh J. Zenner - 05:34pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2234 of 8457)
I really think that it is Cherokee Park, just because baker street is right by it and that could possibly go along with "dough" Beavis - 05:35pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2235 of 8457)
Every one's taking the dome and double division crap too
far...
Besides with demo and mode, you can combine them and the spell out
"Me doomed" ryan quinn - 05:35pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2236 of 8457)
theres not too many people here, huh. nobody is talking Patrick Budion - 05:36pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2237 of 8457)
Any ideas about the "No Golfing" signs at Cherokee? Beavis - 05:36pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2238 of 8457)
there's another thing, from what I've seen every one has turned one or two
parts from almost every clue into a street name. Josh J. Zenner - 05:36pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2239 of 8457)
This is starting to piss me off! Where is that damn medallion?! Terry Valentine - 05:37pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2240 of 8457)
Read #8268 from CASEY!!!!!!
The last time it was at Cherokee, the park was not named till the 9th clue. Patrick Budion - 05:37pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2241 of 8457)
What about 5 city streets running into or bordering Cherokee. It just might be a slam dunk. Patrick Budion - 05:38pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2242 of 8457)
Good point Terry Josh J. Zenner - 05:40pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2243 of 8457)
Has anyone been out to Mounds or Cherokee today, if so were there a lot of people there? Beavis - 05:41pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2244 of 8457)
There's no place left to dig at mounds, in a lot of spots people have even dug into the ground Patrick Budion - 05:41pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2245 of 8457)
Does anyone think Baker street could have anything to do with dough? Wes Evans - 05:41pm Jan 31, 1998 CST (#2246 of 8457)
perhaps tonights clue will be more direct, probably not! I'm going to wait till then to work on these clues! bye. 
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